So a fellow WT colleague forwarded me this
video the other day. It’s WT vs WT my
friends and yes, while one cannot fully judge a Youtube video without actually
being there…I’m still gonna do it.
You can find the video here.
Two wing tsun guys would not make a great
fight. In fact, the first minute of this clip pretty much highlights what two
expert wing tsun guys would do in a fight…nothing. But that, in essence, is
part of the WT fighting philosophy - to intercept an attack or entry, not to
initiate one.
So they got that right.
But then things just fall apart from there
and people are going to say they suck and they ran after their attackers and
the other back peddled..and non-WT punches landed and grappling happened and
anti-grappling didn’t work, why didn’t he see the kick, etc etc.
Or that he didn’t use this principle or
that principle or no knee pressure or didn’t just step in and punch.
Yes while that’s all true and yes maybe
they do suck and are quite bad at Wing Tsun
…
I have to say that this is typically how
fights seem to look especially between everyday Joe’s like you and I. You can
see how difficult it is to fight an opponent that has space to move. On top of that, you can see how once an
opponent knows that you constantly try to move forward, that they can play with
you. You can also see how difficult it is to just GO IN..especially when you
are really getting hit.
You can see how it’s hard to maintain that
close distance without grabbing on.
You can see how difficult it can be to
knock a guy out.
You can see how little wing tsun anyone
really uses..of all their techniques, skills, chi-sao sections, etc..step and
punch is all you got..you barely can throw in a chain punch.
These guys fought like how I sparred back
in my days in University using my wing tsun (albeit I was a student level back
then and didn’t fight other wing chun guys – instead MMA guys, karate guys,
hapkido, taekwondo, kick boxers).
Sparring quickly reveals that things don’t happen like they do in the
drills. The opponent doesn’t stay in your range and tries to get out as quickly
as possible. I remember how annoying that got and I strategically ended up
having to corner them. Then there are
moments where you grab them or they grab you, pin you against the wall with
grabs/attempted takedowns..and you end up grabbing them to restrict their
movements..yes it’s not Wing Tsun..but the reaction is just too natural.
I have to also note that it’s different
fighting guys who are used to fighting and guys who have limited fighting
experience. The former have a tendency to take more risks, commit a bit more
into their hits, get into a more realistic distance, put more weight into their
punches
…while the latter hit with the tendency to
stay away, with a fear of getting hit…it’s like they’re more concerned with
being hit than hitting..
And fighting that type of opponent can be
quite annoying as they are constantly trying to just “tag” you and back
peddling which means you can’t get the right distance to land a meaty hit and
just end up fatiguing over time.
Space is a factor. They fought in a huge
gym. They ran around a lot because they had to the room to do so. When WT guys train, they may train in smaller
quarters, plus under the comfort and cooperation of maintaining close distance
fighting. But in this case, those rules
didn’t apply. Any one of these guys could run around to their hearts
content..of which you could see the other was getting incredibly frustrated with
that.
So what’s my point?
My point is that…for the majority of
us..this is what free-fighting will look like.
We can blame them for not doing this or that, but at the end of the day,
I think this is the end product (sadly) especially for us guys who train WT for
fun, as a hobby or extra-curricular activity. But this applies to any fighting
system…karate, kung fu, jkd, mma. It just looks like shit.
Another point
I do think that in a self-defense scenario,
it would/could look different. This is
where the attacker just attacks. There’s no hesitation, just full commitment
and with no knowledge of what your reactions would be. He attacks under the
assumption that he will ‘win’ and hurt you. This type of scenario presents
variables that may favor the person defending themselves, of course, could also
mean you could get hurt more too. But
the self-defense scenario and the challenge match scenario above are two very
different situations.
My last observation
Why didn’t they show the ending of the
fight??? I thought that was lame. I don’t care how bad or boring it could’ve
been but still show it.
My 2 cents.
Until then.
3 comments:
First of all, very nice blog.
Secondly, I've trained LTWT a couple of years (I'm on a hiatus now) and was very surprised to see in the video that the 4th technical grade didn't seem to use any WT at all. It kind of dissapointed me. I've seen much better fights in my gym (wich is led by a 1st technical grade). I think that both fighters being from different schools might have been a little too cautious not to engage. And, as Yoda would say, fear leads to anger...etc.
Lastly, I agree with you in the point of being /not being used to fighting. As I have zero experience (luckily) in real fights, when I was in more realistic drills, the fight used to go in one direction in my head but in a very different one in reality. Usually things ended being simpler and faster. In my experience, with time you get accustomed to it and start adjusting appropiately. I remember in my first weeks as student realizing that a man with a year or so of training wasn't good at judging distances and that I could hit him easily by getting closer slowly with small steps (I have long reach). Punching him in the face was fun, specially for a begginer who had never fought.
hard to call it a fight. a chase maybe. there is a reason in UFC that aggression earns points by judges. Even a great fighter can have a hard time looking good when the other doesn't come to fight, but to run and survive. As you point out, Wt is about defense vs a 'committed attack/assault'.
Seems from the comments on vid that the smaller guy on bottom submitted at end. Probably from getting punched, from the look of it.
Great, honest post. I agree with most of what you said. I sortof feel that for the reason you said ("space matters"), it'd be a lot more interesting to do a fight like that in a fairly closed space of a few square metres tops, preferably with walls and not just a "ring" with cords, even that's too big imo.
It'd help I think because it forces you to stop backpedalling and really put on the forward pressure.
I also believe that the sign of a really good Wing Tsun practitioner is how well they can move around their opponent and find the holes in the defense given a very limited amount of space.
Seeing as how a lot of self-defence attacks usually start with the attacker talking himself into a close attack position and how WingTsun and most chi-sao type reflexes work a lot better at said range (when you can really use the elbow force and a boxer doesn't have the range advantage anymore with fast hip-movements), that could actually be interesting to watch.
This is one of the reasons why, when I'm doing a self-defence roleplay routine with a friend I train with, we do it in a room which doesn't have all that much free space. It makes it so you can't really backpedal that much and have to really use that forward intent.
I don't think I've actually seen sparring like that on youtube, have you?
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